Feeling Helpless About Climate Change? There's an App For That

Amir: When your meeting with the journalist starts, it starts, right? It, might not, have been, we'll mic you up, and then when you sit down, then we'll tell you when the camera's rolling.

But, it's things that you say on the way to that. It's the little coffee, it's the little exchanges they're great. They're great to have. For both the journalist and for you because, it establishes rapport and you can suss each other out. But you should be aware that it's on the record, and until we talk, ground rules. And that's, off the record, background on the record, whatever it is

Things can always be said in the heat of the moment or things that you want to say off record.

So just tell me,

Edo Perry: Yep.

Amir: at whatever point, hey, I wanna go off the record

Edo Perry: sounds good.

Amir New 2: Edo Perry, from Elements, Thanks for, coming onto The Dejargonizer

Edo Perry: Thank you for inviting me.

Amir: Give us just a very, very brief introduction to yourself and Elements.

Edo Perry: I grew up in the Bay Area in California. Climate awareness in California is very advanced. And so it's been in my DNA for as long as I remember myself.

My last position was at Apple. I was a project manager in the sustainability field. And at some point I realized while working at Apple is that, there's net zero, goals that companies have set out.

There's regulation that's coming into place, companies that are, and their employees and investors and stakeholders are pushing them more and towards sustainability. And I decided to start Elements which helps companies reach those net zero goals in engaging their workforce.

Amir: What is it like to leave Apple?

Edo Perry: Not an easy thing to do with all its benefits and all the packages that you get from that. But at some point I just realized that, even though I'm working on climate in the end, it's not their main business. I decided for myself that I wanted to go fully on board, on climate, and help companies from outside do that. And today, you know, we're working with Apple, so it circle uh, closes, you know, so

Amir: Brilliant. it's an app, right?

Edo Perry: Yep. So what is Elements? Elements is an app that both measures monitors accurately, the Scope three missions that are attributed to employees

Amir: I'm sorry, what? What is scope three? Just for the unscoped..

Edo Perry: companies need to measure what their carbon emissions that they're emitting.

Scope one being their direct emissions, such as AC heating, cooling, that kind of thing. Scope two indirect emissions. electricity manufacturers that are creating that electricity for you to turn on the lights. Scope three is supply chain and employees commuting.

Business travel and working from home is either in Scope three or they're talking about Scope four now which is all the avoided emissions that you can avoid. So that's the scope one, two, and three. And we're targeting specifically scope three emissions of employees to help them reduce emissions, monitor and offer them solutions to reduce those emissions and live a more sustainable and, Cost saving life. Yeah.

Amir: I have seen articles about, everything from greenwashing, which is companies just ticking boxes and doing PR campaigns, that have no real effect on their Scope one or two or three commitments

 What is the main narrative right now where are we in the story,

Edo Perry: the biggest corporates around the world, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Salesforce, Amazon, they all have these Net Zero goals that have put into place.

Amir: It's voluntary or they have to do that?

Edo Perry: The European Union that is now putting out bills that require companies of 500 employees and above to report on environmental action, including carbon emissions.

 The big uh, corporates are doing it kind of voluntarily right now. It's moving in the direction that it will be regulated. I'll give you an example, tech companies, let's say Uber and TikTok and Airbnb, and there are software companies in the end. Most of their missions come from data centers, employee commuting, business travel, those kinds of things. And that's why we're, first, targeting software companies. But

Amir: Why, because it's easier to capture that data?

Edo Perry: Not just to capture, but it's also the majority of their emissions. the majority of emissions from companies come from their scope three emissions, actually the supply chain mostly.

Intel, HP Nike, ABinBev, all these companies that have large manufacturing facilities, they have a uh, emission from their supply chain.

And it's hard to measure. It's a very difficult task to go and measure the scope one and two emissions of your provider in a total different country. most companies around the world are still, first of all measuring the one and two. After they got that done, then they moved to Scope three.

Amir: hold on, just that I understand most of the emissions from companies are scope three, but most of the focus right now is on Scope one and two?

Edo Perry: Because it's easier to measure. So they're starting with that, and then

Amir: But who decided on that? I mean, that doesn't

Edo Perry: It doesn't make sense. Correct.

Amir: That can't be right. Let's go back. This is fascinating. I don't wanna lose the thread

Edo Perry: Yeah.

Amir: Elements is a company that you've started to tackle Scope three emissions, which is the hard stuff. Supply chains, your vendors, It's harder to measure cuz there's more moving parts. Scope one and two are things that are easier to measure. electricity bills, the water bills, the utilities. What other things are in scope one and two that these big companies are already doing.

Edo Perry: If you have a fleet of cars for deliveries and things like that like I mentioned before, heating, cooling of your buildings uh, those kinds of things are what they measure for scope one, and

Amir: And that's easy cuz you just, you have a look at your energy bills and your

Edo Perry: It's not easy to,

Amir: driven

Edo Perry: But yeah it's a bit easier. it's a bit easier to do. I'll give you an example. If you're a company like Apple, and you're buying electronics and you're buying tables and things for your office, for your employees you ship that from, places like China or other places around the world, you have to understand the emissions of the manufacturing company in China. It's a hard thing to measure in the end. Cuz they're, they have to measure one and two. So that's why it's a difficult task

Amir: Can I just pause there for a second cuz I know that companies like Apple have started to check whether their supply chains around the world and the companies they work with are, flagged sanctions, flagged for child labor. I mean, you've gotta know, right?

 So they're already checking certain things about these companies?

Edo Perry: I can't get into too much detail what happens at Apple, what I can say is, they're trying to make a shift, dramatic shift in how the products are, operating, how they manufacture the actual products themselves.They're trying to make it from recycled materials and all that kind of stuff.

Amir: Where would you say on a scale of one to 10 is the beginnings of really tackling Scope three, and where does Elements fit into that?

How do you guys unlock that?

Edo Perry: Yeah. So from one to 10, I would say we're in like two, three

Amir: This is for Scope three, right?

Edo Perry: Yep. Scope three. Even the big company, big corporates are still having a hard time measuring that. And where Elements comes into place is specifically, the employees commuting, business, travel, and working from home. Now, why is that interesting and why did we actually go into that sector? And the reason is because it has a double impact. We're not just reducing the emissions, but we're also educating their employees about sustainability. So without having your employees onboard and understanding the need to reach those net zero goals, no company's gonna reach those goals. You have to have everyone on board. The app is a way for your employer to engage with your employees on sustainability. Teach them about climate, teach them about sustainable materials. If you're a manufacturing company, teach them about how to save energy in your home.

And that obviously translates into the company. So I'm, I'm a big believer in behavioral change. It's a very difficult task that we're trying to tackle. Behavioral change is super difficult,

Amir: you give us a little teaser of that I don't know, anecdote, a trend, anything that works.

Edo Perry: one of the biggest things that we're trying to tackle is the gamification part. So we've gamified our app and made it fun and engaging for people. Because in the end we're living in a world that's moving more and more into that kind of game. Gamified points, ranking, leaderboards, those kinds of things. People feel good about themselves and they like to compete with other team members.

Amir: I love games, but I also have kids. I don't love games anymore. What is the change? Is it, our electricity bills get lower? Do I get benefits from my company? How does that work?

Edo Perry: Yeah, so I'll walk you through it.

Basically, you're an employee. You get an email from your company, from your employer saying, Hey, we care about the planet and our employees. Here's $500 credits. Here's a thousand dollars credit to spend on the Elements app and to use to reduce your emissions and save money.

So then we have a, what we call the sustainability shop, where we have different vendors, different partners that we've partnered with, such as Solar Edge, solar panels, and heat pumps, and smart meters and electric vehicle companies. We have a wide range of different providers, and we really fit the products for each employee individually.

So if you're a homeowner or if you're a renter, if you're in New York or from, you're in California or in Israel the idea is to really fit the needs of each employee individually, we've introduced the whole new sector we call the climate benefit. So just as health benefits are standard in the US and 401k, pension funds, dental, visual, we're trying to create the climate benefit.

Amir: Let me understand this. If I bring down my energy usage at home, does that have any impact on my company's scope three emissions? I mean, they might just say, well, our um, employees are using less energy. We'll give them $500 But we could still be vastly under where we need to be as a corporation. So how do you stop internal greenwashing?

Edo Perry: if a company gives you a certain amount of credit, dollars to spend on renewable energy and those kinds of things, there are also actually tax reimbursements that company can get. So it's also a financial benefit for the company to do that instead of giving a thousand dollars for something that you don't actually need, and the second part of that is specifically working from home. So when you're working from home, whatever the hours that you're working, you're using energy, right? You're heating, you're cooling, you're using your computer and

Amir: For your company or

Edo Perry: yeah, for your company, it, and it makes sense, I think, like it makes sense that the company would pay you for that energy and help you transition your home to renewable energy.

Amir: If my electricity bill goes down and I take more public transport affects my company because they get tax breaks, but they're not necessarily becoming Green.

Edo Perry: They are because they're reducing those, their emissions, they are becoming more green. Think about it, if you're taking the public transportation, if you're reducing your energy bill, if you're taking less business travel, less flights, that all goes towards the company.

So they're reducing those emissions that go towards The company that you work at. They're becoming more green and like we're creating this culture of climate responsibility within the company, with the employees.

So it has effects on other things like the products. I'll give you an example. Nike, a conversation with the sustainability team there and, and what they, mentioned was that if their designers don't think of, sustainable materials within their, their way of designing the next Nike shoe, how are they gonna reach those goals , by, you know, it's, it's very difficult.

So that's why they're incorporating it in the core business of the company.

Amir: I'm a bit of a skeptic here as you can tell on, on two points. I'm still not convinced that employees might be greenwashing their own company. So I want to talk about that.

But there are other skeptics who say, look, these individual actions are drops in the ocean compared to industrial emissions.

Edo Perry: we can start with the second one. I think is cuz it's one that I've been discussing a lot lately. There's a lot of different options that you can do. Renewable energies, you can do offsets, you can do,, so many projects companies can do out now to reduce their emissions.

either transitioning their facilities to renewable energy, buying different credits from different companies, and then comes a third option, which is what we do. it has a double impact on both the company and employees. It's a win-win for both sides. Let's say Apple decides to buy carbon offsets, spend a thousand dollars per ton of CO2 that's emitted. If they give that thousand dollars to their employee, the impact is much better for both them and the employee.

Amir: It's a drop in the ocean, right? It's not like

Edo Perry: Correct. so I have a lot to say about that. But I'll start by saying the way that Tesla started, how did they start? They started with the Roadster. Roadster, right? They built a car that's sexy, that's cool. And it was a very high-end luxury car. And then slowly, slowly, slowly, they reduced the pricing. And now they're gonna launch a car that's even more, uh, cheaper than the, the, model three. So, The same kind of concept is what we're trying to do. We're starting with the big tech companies that have chief sustainability officers in place in the company. Super high ranking officials, you know, second underneath the CEOs. And they already have those kind of goals set out, we started out b2c and then we shipped it to b2 b2c because

Amir: you started out as b2c, then you went b2b,

Edo Perry: Correct.

Amir: and you're gonna go, the next step is direct to consumer DTC

Edo Perry: could be.

Amir: sorry. What is the difference between B2C and D2C? I mean, you're selling to consumers. What is the difference?

Edo Perry: D2C

Basically, we're now going b2b2c so we're going through companies, through corporates to their employees.

Amir: b2b2c

Edo Perry: yeah, correct.

Amir: All right. So business to business is you to them, them to their employee.

So it's b2b2e

Edo Perry: yeah. That's a new, that's a new term that you've invented right now,

Amir: All right, let's just go back to the story. Is this a drop in the ocean or is this a waterfall effect? How do you think it's gonna work?

Edo Perry: how do you get to work?

Amir: So, I work from home

Edo Perry: Okay.

Amir: At least once or twice a week. I get on an electric scooter. I go to the train, take the train into somewhere, get off I'll, I'll, also take cabs once every couple of months I'll fly. But mostly that's it.

Edo Perry: Yeah. So you

Amir: Easy, low carbon footprint.

Edo Perry: Yeah, actually, yeah. Very amazing. You do a good job. So I drive a car. I'm vegan. I don't buy clothes. I don't have kids. I don't invest in fossil fuels through my pension funds, which is one of the most uh, way to reduce emissions is by doing that. I do anything I can, but I do drive a car and I still don't have an electric car. Obviously I'd like to switch to an electric car, but not yet. In the end, I still need to get from A to B or from a, to wherever I'm going. And most people in the world,

Amir: C.

Edo Perry: Exactly. and most people around the world still need to consume, we're not gonna change that. And so I'm a big believer in that we need to change the way we live, the way we think, the way we act, the way we consume.

Amir: let's go into that behavioral economics of this Now you mentioned you have a gamification approach, Give us a few examples of

Edo Perry: amazing. I'll give you an example from Estee Lauder, which is another company that we're working with. The recycling and commuting and education is really important for them. So we have different kinds of challenges like webinars and things like that, that if the employees onboard and do that, then they get more points and more credit to use.

Amir: Take us through that.

Edo Perry: We ask a few questions to understand your needs specifically. So how many people are living in your home do you live in a house or an apartment? How much energy you're using. And then with that, we basically understand what kind of products fit your needs specifically. And through different APIs that we've done and integrations, we basically know how to help you save more on, on your energy bill measure those, the electricity usage, and then tell you, listen, if you charge your, your electric vehicle on peak hours, you're emitting more It costs you more money versus if you do it at 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM when less people are charging their electric vehicles, then you save more money and you're emitting less, then you get points for doing that. So it's a whole mechanism of incentivizing employees to do that.

Amir: Is it okay if we do a demo? Would you be open to giving us kind of a walkthrough if I shared  screen?

Edo Perry: Yeah, sure. We can do that.

Amir: Climate Engagement Platform benefiting you and our planet.

Edo Perry: You insert your uh, your details, what do you actually care about: Solar waste, green investments, smart products, EV. Do you commute to work, car, carpool, bus shuttle, all those different things. Your home address, the type of home: house, apartment, how many people are living in the home, your average electricity bill. And then congrats, you've just earned the Elements badge for joining. Plus 10 points.

Amir: What'd I get for those 10 points?

Edo Perry: Those points yeah. Are then translated into actual cash that you can spend on the platform. So that's the idea.

Amir: So this is like your Delta Airlines or my Lufthansa point system.

Edo Perry: Exactly. we're working to get that with credit cards so that if you get your rewards, all those kinds of things, you could spend it on our platform. And then you see the CO2 that you've saved. And through data, we know how much emissions you've lowered and how much, uh, you've saved.

 And the companies are paying us per active user.

Amir: Let's say this is plugged in now to a lot of companies. Yeah. You're growing nicely. You become a sustainability marketplace. No, a sustainability,

Edo Perry: we call it the climate engagement platform for employees. That's what we are.

Amir: climate engagement platform for employees, a marketplace of sorts where you vet companies that you think make the planet more sustainable. There's incentives and points and everyone's on board and we look a few years into the future.

What kind of impact do you think you could see here really? What are you unlocking in?

What's making Scope three so hard?

Edo Perry: Yeah. First of all, the accuracy that we get is very hard to measure. And that's what we come into place Most companies make estimates, on how much emissions their employees are emitting. The second thing I would say is that Gen Z, millennials are 60% of the workforce today. They're becoming more vocal about climate and environmental social aspects. They want to have these kinds of solutions within their companies and they're actually leaving companies if they don't have it.

Just by commuting in a more sustainable manner you can reduce. Two, three tons per employee per year by eating less meat. By doing like Meatless Mondays, you're emitting less by buying less clothes. That's a lot of emissions. And Apple has 164,000 employees. Amazon has 1.6 million employees. I think about how much homes that impacts. I think it has a big impact both on the emissions part, but also on the educational and awareness part.

Amir: What are the challenges when, you talk to companies, to investors,

Edo Perry: so, the knowledge about what is emissions and what do I need to report

And what is renewable energy? Those terms are still not entrenched in, HR departments. as Gen Z become more vocal about it, they'll have to be, just as diversity is in 2022 it was the topic for HR, I believe that 2023 and 2024 is gonna be sustainability

Amir: I understand why diversity would go to HR even though I think HR is where good deeds go to die if this is gonna take time and a lot of education, the way climate change is going, it might not have that time. Why are you going to HR?

Edo Perry: because in the end they're working with people we have to have them on board, like we want them on board and we're working with them. Some companies are very old-fashioned and their employees are, the average is 35 to 50, something like that. So it's very hard to retain them and to attract them with new kinds of things. And our solution is a very innovative tool. So for a lot of hr, it, okay, wait, is something we haven't heard of before, something new, and maybe it's a way to retain our employees.

Amir: I would be interested in free childcare and permanent time off or whatever they're calling it. what you're saying is companies can attract employees and retain employees by offering them climate benefits, a chance to reduce, reuse and recycle in their own lives, and then also benefit their company. Cause they know, by doing this, their companies are also undertaking a commitment To lower their carbon footprint across all their vendor supply chains does that sound right?

Edo Perry: Yeah, it does. That's exactly why we're doing it. In the end, most people care about saving money, being appreciative of their work, of their environment, of their job, being able to share with other people, and being able to progress within your company. That's what most people care about. If we help save people money and give them options on how to live more healthier and how to live more sustainably, I believe we can unlock that.

Amir: We always go back to the behavioral, the behavioral, behavioral science of this.

I think this seems to be the crux, right?

Edo Perry: Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Amir: Most people are really interested in job security or income security, retirement savings, mortgages. Money especially in tough times, money is almost everything to most

Edo Perry: Yep.

Amir: and kind of Maslow hierarchy of

Edo Perry: Correct.

Amir: Having a nice impact a, good impact on climate change is a nice to have. And you're saying that the behavioral work, why can't I say that word? Behavioral

Edo Perry: Behavioral change. Yeah.

Amir: Okay. Is connecting the nice to have with the absolute must have through money,

Edo Perry: Correct.

Amir: right?

Edo Perry: more than that, through health too. And I'll give you an example. In New York, in the beginning of June, one of the craziest wildfires from Canada, saw the orange skies. That happened. It was insane. And I know a lot of people that are also on the app in different companies that we're working with, that were scared shitless.

Like literally, they didn't go outside for the whole day for two, two and a half days just because of this, it was like smoking six cigarettes just by breathing that air. the same thing happened in California in 2020 with their wildfires. So people, especially in the US and in Europe, are becoming more afraid also about climate change and those effects It's sad, but it's happening all those things together

is this puzzle that people are starting to be more and more worried about.

Amir: I get why climate action is supremely important, but I also feel personally that what keeps me and quite a few other people I think from really doing more of this stuff is the sense that we can't really affect it. I mean, yeah, we recycle, we do the best we can.

 Can you take me over what happens when hundreds of thousands of millions of employees at big companies are using elements like, and you're scaling this.

Edo Perry: Yeah.

Amir: What does that look like?

Edo Perry: The ADT signs that you have in the US

Amir: ADT is a security company.

Edo Perry: Correct. The blue kind of signs that you have out outside your home.

Amir: Yeah, sure.

Edo Perry: So imagine the same kind of concept, but having powered by elements and having that outside your home where you can share that with your neighbors and spread that word about that you're shifting yourself to climate and creating that network effect.

That's what we're trying to do.

Amir: So You asked for this. Okay. And I'll be gentle, I come from South Africa

 Those ADT signs and others like them are everywhere.

And truth behind that is that those signs mask a deeply broken law enforcement and criminal justice,

Edo Perry: But in South Africa, you talking about?

Amir: in South Africa.

Edo Perry: Interesting. Okay.

Amir: when you make the connection between private security firms that are doing the work that the authorities should be doing, aren't doing for whatever it could be. Corruption could be bad management, it could be not enough tax, it could be a ton of different things.

But it does show that the basic contract between a state and its citizens, the right to life to protection, is just broken. So people are paying for private security firms. And so I'm gonna, this is a really tough question, but I think you'll be fine with it.

Cause we've already spoken about this. Is how concerned are you that elements could be like that ADT sign where it's, used by corporations really as kind of a tool that says, look we're doing our part, but in a way, it's masking the fact these are really only rich tech companies that can afford to do this stuff and have, chief sustainability officer.

The bigger picture is, that is a system failure.

Edo Perry: The reason I connected with the ADT sign was just because of the effect that it had on people where you saw that ADT sign on outside not because of the security itself and what, but

Amir: Yeah. But just to put a final point on that. When I see an ADT sign, I don't see, oh, that's a secure house. I think this country's fucked.

Edo Perry: Okay. Interesting. Great point. I must say I will say this, I believe the future of our world is moving, is shifting. It's becoming hotter. We eventually want to expand to everyone and anyone, not just corporates and not just tech companies. municipalities contacted me and wanted to do this with Elements, governments, manufacturing companies, oil companies even contacted us and wanted to do this.

Amir: And what's your answer to the oil companies, the polluters?

Edo Perry: It's been an environmental debate for many years now. and my true, honest answer is that if they want to make that shift and they want us to help them specifically with their employees, even a little bit. instead of investing in oil fields, what they do anyways, if they spend a little more on climate, I'm for that. Most of the oil companies are investing more in sustainability than any other company out there.

Amir: And they're also polluting more than any other company

Edo Perry: I agree with you completely, but again, it goes back to consumers. This has been a big greenwashing campaign about how large oil companies are trying to blame it on consumers and blame it on, on little people.

Amir: I asked you a complicated, tough question, and I feel like I'm still trying to grasp you. I feel, I feel like you're, you've made some good points, but I, I think we should try it again. And It's a tough question, and you should take a moment to kind of acknowledge that this could be the central tension in your story at the moment the skepticism in your story at the moment, especially from, let's say, journalists who cover this, how do you avoid this becoming greenwashing? When you're taking all this data, from employees and they're uploading their um, electricity bills. What are you doing on the other side to check that the electricity bills of the actual company and everything that they're committed to doing is actually happening, and that you're not just putting a lot of green washing potential in the hands of employees, sorry, of employers. maybe just treat this as, is a big question.

Edo Perry: Yeah.

Amir: This is something that, you know, we absolutely have been struggling with. let's put it, on the table and, so I, I'll call this bridging, but it really is just having an honest conversation that says, yes, It is an issue. This is how we think about it, and this is how we're trying to build. And then take me over the bridge with you.

Edo Perry: Yeah, so there's a couple things that I think of as you say that the first one, you could say that about anything that a company does regarding climate. You could say that about Apple that's investing 200 million in planting trees, right? You could say they're greenwashing all their, their, their iPhones and all that.

You could say that about offsetting emissions. You I'm not saying that as a good thing, I'm just saying people would speak about greenwashing and what companies are trying to do on any project that they're doing, if they're not, cease to exist in the end. So that's one thing. The second part of that is that if we talk about competitors and we talk about other folks out there, we are accurate. And the way we become accurate is by actually measuring through smart meters and through commuting vendors that we are working with So we know that if you take a lime scooter, the minute you took the lime scooter until you got to your work, we know that path and we know that the actual amount of emissions, so that's direct, that's accurate. The amount of solar panels that you put. So all these different things, we have those data points and know how to accurately measure the amount of emissions.

I hope that answers a bit of your question.

Amir: It answers for me more about how you feel about the question. it feels to me, and I might be wrong. That and this is what I actually like about it. Cause you're grappling with this. You don't have the messaging. yet, which I think is good. I think at this point, you know, you're grappling with it. So here's how potentially I would answer the question or think about answering a question, which would be something like, we are absolutely being asked and gonna be asked the exact same question that anyone working in, carbon footprint reduction. Every company who says they're doing something needs to be checked.

There are benchmarks out there. not dodging this question. Absolutely understand where this is coming from.  So thank you for asking that question because this is something that, everyone's dealing with. Our view of the stack, remember, we're scope three, there's Scope one and two. And even in scope three, there's a lot of stuff going on. Now, there's even scope four

Edo Perry: Yeah.

Amir: We think that the first step is to start to accurately measure as much as possible of the employee's carbon footprint,

Edo Perry: Mm-hmm.

Amir: Travel, electricity. Are they even educating themselves about this stuff, right?

That's important. And we can talk about that. How do you get great content? We think scope three is vastly under serviced. And what we still have to really figure out, how do we report back to our users, which are the employees?

What are we saying to them that we're seeing that their companies are reporting in their larger reporting, their annual shareholders or quarterly, or, to our own internal communications. How do we hold them to account? How do we know that this is working?

Edo Perry: Yeah. That's a great answer. I will be honest.

Amir: Okay. We've gone on a long road trip here. We started off with um, introducing you and how you've gotten to this point in why you're doing what you're doing.

And then we've gotten into how it works, what it looks like what are the challenges

And then at a bigger picture, which is when, if and when this is scaled and this is really starting to make a difference I still feel like there is a piece of the bigger picture that we're missing, and maybe we should just look at this briefly, is what's coming from the governments. Policies, regulations, smart, blunt, more forceful, what? Whatever it is. What do you think needs to come from the governments down to the corporations

Edo Perry: Carbon taxes. Carbon taxes, that's what they need to do. That's what will require companies to report and accurately measure their scope one, two, and their emissions. Cuz if they're not doing it accurately, they're gonna be paying shit ton of money trying to, you know, reduce those emissions somehow.

Amir: Okay, so Edo is there anything that you think I've missed? Is there something that you feel like you wanted to say?

Edo Perry: The last thing is just from speaking with over 50 corporates around the world, hp, Intel, Microsoft, Salesforce, Nike, all these different companies, I see this trend that's happening. I'm very optimistic. Like you see me smiling. I'm a very optimistic person. I see that the trend is moving in a more positive way, not as fast as I would want it to happen, but definitely more companies are getting on board, more employees are getting on board.

Amir: Great. Was there anything that you said that you feel could get you in trouble

Edo Perry: no, we, the companies that I mentioned, you can share being Apple Estee Lauder Lemonade our,

Amir: are nice.

Edo Perry: yeah,

Amir: nice. This has really been um, really fun uh, not an easy episode, thanks for coming on.

Edo Perry: yeah.

Amir: we've touched

Edo Perry: Climate’s not easy.

Amir: Climate's not easy. Greenwashing is not easy. Changing people's behavior is not easy. But I think we talked about really cool stuff.